Vampire Cheerleaders Talk

[tau neutrino]

Heather also could have met them off panel, like Char delivering the message to Leonard. Another possibility is that Heather met final death in the intervening centuries (also possible for J.C.) or even turned back into a human and died of old age.

We definitely know that she didn't change back into a human.

Adam disagreed with the rather eccentric fanfiction ending in that post, but there's no reason he couldn't change his mind and use that as the reason for writing Heather out. The whole time travel thing wasn't planned originally for the finale. It's one thing to love being a Vampire Cheerleader, but being a Vampire Office Manager? Especially going centuries in the body and brain of a petite high school junior. This lecture on Mr. Dark's carousel might be foreshadowing. The others might have be able to adapt, but she might not have been. There's also watching mortal friends and lovers grow old and die.

Heather's the only one to offer any apology to Leonard after all the abuse he's suffered at most people's hands.

Formally, yes. But Leonard said had no hard feelings towards any of them and said he kind of enjoyed it, since he got to shag 'em every now and then.

Someone said on the comments for the latter that he must have suffering Stockholm Syndrome. I think he must have wanted to let Heather off the hook, and he definitely didn't enjoy riding in the trunk. In the former, he doesn't seem to be letting them off the hook so much as regretting the violence and Heather and the others being led off in chains. Otherwise he wouldn't have helped the PMS. The trouble is, Leonard saying that makes him sound like a masochist. He was stuck in a trunk for an approximately 10-11 hour trip from Colorado to Las Vegas. Immediately, he had to carry everyone's bags, and Lesley, supposedly the nice one, discouraged someone helping him. When not carrying their luggage, he was expected tostay in a closet or handed off like a dog to the B squad. Suki made him massage her feet and kicked him in the head (that could really cause damage especially with vampire strength). He was forced to perform in drag. Lori called him "thrall" and ordered him around, scolding him when he didn't get in the trunk fast enough. (Heather had her license, so she could have borrowed her parents' car and driven him.) Suki made him buy a Playgirl, then stole his copy of Batwoman and later fed on him. Zoe tried to get him to strip, with Lesley adding insult to injury by referring to his "baby rattle". When he's done serving them, they make him walk home so he won't interfere with them picking up hot guys. Just imagine this done to a female character. Bianca Harrow was painted as a villain just for insulting her servant. If it was a group of males doing it to a female, the writer would be lynched.

It's doubtful Leonard enjoyed Plan BC after the first time. The VC regard him as a thrall, not a man, and he can't initiate anything. He already does what they tell him, so he's stuck carrying their bags while they use Plan BC on the gym owner. (Notice he uses the past tense. Suki hints at using him as a replacement for her Hello Kitty massager, but there would be no time for it that night. Considering Suki's fetishes and the fact that Leonard can't refuse, that might be a good thing.) It's likely that they string him along with fan service then send him off with a peck on the cheek like at the tanning salon. Even if he did get to shag them, no amount of sex should be worth your dignity.

If you ask me, the ones Heather really need to make amends with are her parents.

She betrayed both, her parents more actively. See my defense of Mrs. Hartley in this thread.

[Gotoh]

We definitely know that she didn't change back into a human.

It's one thing to love being a Vampire Cheerleader, but being a Vampire Office Manager?

Look at what Adam said again. He said it's about vampires who enjoy being vampires. Period.

Someone said on the comments for the latter that he must have suffering Stockholm Syndrome. I think he must have wanted to let Heather off the hook, and he definitely didn't enjoy riding in the trunk.

Leonard wasn't suffering from anything, he really didn't mind it much. We saw that when they reunited with Zoe and Leslie at Lita World. Leonard didn't hold any of what they'd done against them. All he saw were two old friends and treated them accordingly.

It's doubtful Leonard enjoyed Plan BC after the first time.

Yes he did.

• Suki: "Bet you did, Mr. "Booty Call."

• Leonard: "Oh. Yeah. I liked Plan "BC."

It's likely that they string him along with fan service then send him off with a peck on the cheek like at the tanning salon.

They were shaggin' him. Look at the link where he admitted he liked Plan "BC". In that same panel, Suki invited him upstairs for another round later that evening. Lita also told Steph that he was bangin' Lori and her girls - which is why she said just flashing him wasn't gonna cut it. Katie called Suki Leonard's "VWB" and Suki didn't deny it. She even addressed him as "frell buddy", which is slang for "f*** buddy".

Or, this exchange between Katie and Suki:

• Katie: "I know where your weak spot is, vampire."

• Suki: "Leonard does too. It's right down --"

So yeah, he was getting some on the side.

Even if he did get to shag them, no amount of sex should be worth your dignity.

I agree, but Leonard doesn't think dignity's all that important if it means he can bang a group of hotties, who'd normally be out of his league. He even told Heather as much, when he confronted her at the prom and she was one of the girls he was bangin'.

She betrayed both, her parents more actively.

Yes, but Leonard's already forgiven her. So the only ones she still needs to make amends with are her parents.

[MrJustice4]

Yes, but Leonard's already forgiven her.

Of course Leonard forgives Heather because not only is he her best friend that she's ever had, but he's also the coolest guy ever and the greatest character in the whole series!

[tau neutrino]

We definitely know that she didn't change back into a human.

It's one thing to love being a Vampire Cheerleader, but being a Vampire Office Manager?

Look at what Adam said again. He said it's about vampires who enjoy being vampires. Period.

Cool down, it's an offhand reply to a post, not scripture. Adam can change that at any time, like he changed PMS taking over the combined title. The "Cheerleader" part didn't last over the centuries.

Someone said on the comments for the latter that he must have suffering Stockholm Syndrome. I think he must have wanted to let Heather off the hook, and he definitely didn't enjoy riding in the trunk.

Leonard wasn't suffering from anything, he really didn't mind it much. We saw that when they reunited with Zoe and Leslie at Lita World. Leonard didn't hold any of what they'd done against them. All he saw were two old friends and treated them accordingly.

I assume they'd decided to forgive each other after the rescue. (The VC also seem to have acquired empathy.) Moreover, Leonard would have been relieved to see familiar faces after being zapped into a third unknown time period and facing death in the previous two. Forced to ride in a trunk still beats being shoved out an airlock.

It's doubtful Leonard enjoyed Plan BC after the first time.

Yes he did.

• Suki: "Bet you did, Mr. "Booty Call."

• Leonard: "Oh. Yeah. I liked Plan "BC."

It's likely that they string him along with fan service then send him off with a peck on the cheek like at the tanning salon.

They were shaggin' him. Look at the link where he admitted he liked Plan "BC". In that same panel, Suki invited him upstairs for another round later that evening.

Like I said, in the dialogue from that link he uses the past tense. Suki even emphasizes it: "Bet you did, Mr. "Booty Call." That indicates they were talking about this memorable incident, with no indication of a repeat. It definitely wasn't ongoing. Suki did make that invitation (they were in the gym, so there was no upstairs), but as I said, even if she was serious, their performance time was changed to 8 am and Leonard was drafted into being an alternate, so there wouldn't have been time. The whole thing seems to be spur of the moment in response to Lesley's use of Plan BC. Suki's the one without the filter and the most promiscuous, but there's only that brief hint here (as opposed to VCIS&T?!). At the tanning salon, she's only interested in his comic and his blood. The others don't even talk about sex in front of him. Heather tries to cover up Lesley's actions by saying "A girl never reveals her secrets." Lori refers to "...girl things" when they go out to pick up guys. That's not how you act with a regular sex friend.

Lita also told Steph that he was bangin' Lori and her girls - which is why she said just flashing him wasn't gonna cut it.

She just said that they used their "feminine wiles and womanly parts to 'va va voom' him into one hell of a loyal slave", so Char's spell wasn't enough. She doesn't know how far they went and it doesn't sound like she thinks it was more than once. The PMS was able to use PG-rated fanservice to va va voom him out of it. The "something going on in his pants" sounds like he wasn't getting regular sex from hotties.

Katie called Suki Leonard's "VWB" and Suki didn't deny it. She even addressed him as "frell buddy", which is slang for "f*** buddy".

Or, this exchange between Katie and Suki:

• Katie: "I know where your weak spot is, vampire."

• Suki: "Leonard does too. It's right down --"

So yeah, he was getting some on the side.

I'm not denying they were frell buddies, but it happened after VCMD!. As for why Suki? Why not. She got held back a year and the only people in her circle of friends were Leonard and Heather (and the B Squad girls), so... she put Leonard to good use. Compare the behavior you cite with how she acted in the previous books. When Suki is frell buddies with someone, she isn't discreet.

[Gotoh]

Cool down, it's an offhand reply to a post, not scripture. Adam can change that at any time, like he changed PMS taking over the combined title. The "Cheerleader" part didn't last over the centuries.

I'm not agitated.

Had Adam changed his mind about them loving being vampires and staying that way, he would've said so. Or you can always ask him.

I assume they'd decided to forgive each other after the rescue. (The VC also seem to have acquired empathy.) Moreover, Leonard would have been relieved to see familiar faces after being zapped into a third unknown time period and facing death in the previous two. Forced to ride in a trunk still beats being shoved out an airlock.

Perhaps, but none of that changes the fact that he had already let bygones be bygones.

Like I said, in the dialogue from that link he uses the past tense. Suki even emphasizes it: "Bet you did, Mr. "Booty Call." That indicates they were talking about this memorable incident, with no indication of a repeat. It definitely wasn't ongoing.

Re-read what Leonard told Heather at the prom about doing what he had to for a little "BC". He was talking about after the first, so was Lita. That's why Steph asked her if she was implying that they were supposed to "shag him". Notice Lita's response at the end, and on the following page.

I'm not denying they were frell buddies, but it happened after VCMD!. When Suki is frell buddies with someone, she isn't discreet.

And she wasn't being discreet when she gave him that invitation at the gym, she said that in front of everybody. Which was before the VCMD! arc. The other girls were also shaggin' him. If they weren't, Heather would've said it was only that one time.

But if you're still not convinced after all the times the other characters said he was bangin' 'em, ask Adam. I'm pretty sure he's gonna tell you the same thing.

[tau neutrino]

Cool down, it's an offhand reply to a post, not scripture. Adam can change that at any time, like he changed PMS taking over the combined title. The "Cheerleader" part didn't last over the centuries.

I'm not agitated.

Had Adam changed his mind about them loving being vampires and staying that way, he would've said so. Or you can always ask him.

I'm going to, but he doesn't seem to have time to answer lately.

I assume they'd decided to forgive each other after the rescue. (The VC also seem to have acquired empathy.) Moreover, Leonard would have been relieved to see familiar faces after being zapped into a third unknown time period and facing death in the previous two. Forced to ride in a trunk still beats being shoved out an airlock.

Perhaps, but none of that changes the fact that he had already let bygones be bygones.

But there were still bygones.

Like I said, in the dialogue from that link he uses the past tense. Suki even emphasizes it: "Bet you did, Mr. "Booty Call." That indicates they were talking about this memorable incident, with no indication of a repeat. It definitely wasn't ongoing.

Re-read what Leonard told Heather at the prom about doing what he had to for a little "BC". He was talking about after the first, so was Lita. That's why Steph asked her if she was implying that they were supposed to "shag him". Notice Lita's response at the end, and on the following page.

Like I said before, they could have been stringing him along, and he had been anticipating it under the influence of the glamour. Michael Shelfer's opinion was that doing it with all of them at homecoming gave him the impression that it was constant. All Lita knows is that at some point, the VC used their feminine wiles and womanly bits to "va va voom" him into a slave. She also uses the past tense. She can't know how many times or the details. She wants Steph and the others to shag him because that's the easiest and quickest way to remove the reinforced glamour, but it doesn't have any bearing on whether the VC were still having sex with him.

I'm not denying they were frell buddies, but it happened after VCMD!. When Suki is frell buddies with someone, she isn't discreet.

And she wasn't being discreet when she gave him that invitation at the gym, she said that in front of everybody. Which was before the VCMD! arc. The other girls were also shaggin' him. If they weren't, Heather would've said it was only that one time.

Actually she is being discreet. Heather and the others are walking ahead and Suki gets close to him, appearing to whisper the invitation. That's why there was no reaction from the others, especially the B squad. That would indicate they avoid talking about sex with Leonard. Heather didn't want to discuss Plan BC at all in front of the other girls.

But if you're still not convinced after all the times the other characters said he was bangin' 'em, ask Adam. I'm pretty sure he's gonna tell you the same thing.

The thing is, the VCs never indicate he's banging them. On the contrary, in Vegas and Bakertown, he gets left behind when they go pick up guys. Apart from one aborted attempt from Suki, none of them show any interest when he's a thrall. The impression is that he's in what Cerebus creator Dave Sim calls the "fan club", a subdivision of the friendzone where you constantly do things for someone who will never have sex with you. Adam hasn't committed one way or the other, but Shelfer had his opinion above.

[Gotoh]

All Lita knows is that at some point, the VC used their feminine wiles and womanly bits to "va va voom" him into a slave. She also uses the past tense. She can't know how many times or the details.

All parties involved already know when each of those times were, so there wasn't a need to go into specifics. Whereas had Leonard only slept with them that one time, Heather would've called him a liar for saying he was still bangin' 'em. But she didn't, because she was one the vamps he'd done it with.

She wants Steph and the others to shag him because that's the easiest and quickest way to remove the reinforced glamour, but it doesn't have any bearing on whether the VC were still having sex with him.

Lita wasn't suggesting it was that fastest way, she was saying that it was the only way to break the glamour Lori's girls had put on him. So, she was telling Steph to fight fire with fire.

And yes, they were still doing it with him. That's what Lita was telling Steph.

That's why there was no reaction from the others, especially the B squad. That would indicate they avoid talking about sex with Leonard. Heather didn't want to discuss Plan BC at all in front of the other girls.

Suki: "Hope you're using protection!! she doesn't know where you've been."

Granted, she mumbled the second part so only he could hear her, but she still said it in front of B-squad and the rest of the school. And notice (like Heather) he didn't deny the implication.

The thing is, the VCs never indicate he's banging them.

They didn't have to, since Leonard, Lita, and Suki already did.

[tau neutrino]

All Lita knows is that at some point, the VC used their feminine wiles and womanly bits to "va va voom" him into a slave. She also uses the past tense. She can't know how many times or the details.

How do you figure 'past tense' means 'only once'?

Not necessarily, but it does mean "not ongoing".

All parties involved already know when each of those times were, so there wasn't a need to go into specifics. Whereas had Leonard only slept with them that one time, Heather would've called him a liar for saying he was still bangin' 'em. But she didn't, because he was telling the truth.

Is the first sentence about Heather and Leonard?
There would be no reason to call him a liar, since he's not bragging, he's letting them off the hook for making him ride in the trunk. He doesn't claim that he was still banging them, just that he was doing it for the sake of Plan BC. They could have been stringing him along, with or without glamour (that's common if you're in the fanclub zone). Heather definitely wouldn't bring that up.

She wants Steph and the others to shag him because that's the easiest and quickest way to remove the reinforced glamour, but it doesn't have any bearing on whether the VC were still having sex with him.

It wasn't some 'one 'n done' type deal. Lita didn't need to know the details to recognize what was going on on between Leonard and Lori's coven.

She meant a "one 'n done" glamour type deal, like with Heather's parents. That one thing with Dustin sounds like only one incident was necessary.

That's why there was no reaction from the others, especially the B squad. That would indicate they avoid talking about sex with Leonard. Heather didn't want to discuss Plan BC at all in front of the other girls.

Suki: "Hope you're using protection!! she doesn't know where you've been."

Granted, she mumbled the second part so only he could hear her, but she still said it in front of B-squad and the rest of the school. And notice (like Heather) he didn't deny the implication.

That's a joke about him unexpectedly having sex with a nerd girl. If anyone else had heard it, they would have assumed Suki was being crass about Leonard supposedly being Heather's boyfriend. If he was still having sex with Suki, and she thought he was simultaneously doing another girl, you'd expect more innuendo like in the final book.

The thing is, the VCs never indicate he's banging them.

They didn't have to, since Leonard, Lita, and Suki already did.

That wouldn't change their own behavior.

[Gotoh]

How do you figure 'past tense' means 'only once'?

Not necessarily, but it does mean "not ongoing".

Let's say a girl and her boyfriend shag each other 3 times a week, with their most recent time being last weekend. If she spoke about it past tense, that wouldn't mean they've stopped - unless they've broken up. And even then, they could still be friends with benefits. Either way, it'd still be ongoing.

Or, if you prefer, if someone talked about what went on at work last Tuesday (past tense), it doesn't mean that they've quit their job.

There would be no reason to call him a liar, since he's not bragging, he's letting them off the hook for making him ride in the trunk. He doesn't claim that he was still banging them, just that he was doing it for the sake of Plan BC..

I don't get how you fail to understand what Leonard was saying, unless you're just determined not to see it. Look at what he said in context:

• he specifically mentions that he didn't like having to ride in the trunk - which didn't start until after the first time they shagged him. Then he says: "--but sometimes (plural), you do what you gotta do for a little "BC."

• Which is what Lita meant when she told Steph that she wasn't just dealing with some simple glamour, the vamps were reinforcing it by doing him. Repeatedly. So she told Steph, Katie, and Char, to do the same thing, except better.

If he was still having sex with Suki, and she thought he was simultaneously doing another girl, you'd expect more innuendo like in the final book.

". . . . . ."

[tau neutrino]

How do you figure 'past tense' means 'only once'?

Not necessarily, but it does mean "not ongoing".

Let's say a girl and her boyfriend shag each other 3 times a week, with their most recent time being last weekend. If she spoke about it past tense, that wouldn't mean they've stopped - unless they've broken up. And even then, they could still be friends with benefits. Either way, it'd still be ongoing.

Or, if you prefer, if someone talked about what went on at work last Tuesday (past tense), it doesn't mean that they've quit their job.

You're using the present tense in the first sentence to describe the relationship. To use your example, what would you infer from "he shagged her" (implying a one night stand) vs. "he is shagging her" (ongoing relationship). Or "someone stole my lunch from the breakroom at the place where I work" vs. "someone stole my lunch from the breakroom at the place where I worked".

There would be no reason to call him a liar, since he's not bragging, he's letting them off the hook for making him ride in the trunk. He doesn't claim that he was still banging them, just that he was doing it for the sake of Plan BC..

I don't get how you fail to understand what Leonard was saying, unless you're just determined not to see it. Look at what he said in context:

• he specifically mentions that he didn't like having to ride in the trunk - which didn't start until after the first time they shagged him. Then he says: "--but sometimes (plural), you do what you gotta do for a little "BC."

• Which is what Lita meant when she told Steph that she wasn't just dealing with some simple glamour, the vamps were reinforcing it by doing him. Repeatedly. So she told Steph, Katie, and Char, to do the same thing, except better.

If he was still having sex with Suki, and she thought he was simultaneously doing another girl, you'd expect more innuendo like in the final book.

". . . . . ."

Should probably agree to disagree on this.

[tau neutrino]

I and others have wanted to see Heather get a The Reason You Suck Speech. (We might still get it if "Vampire Cheerleaders Camp It Up" gets made. In my case, I hope it's followed by a Heel Realization with her and the other VCs trying to act more human as they do in the last chapter.) So who would you want to deliver it? This is roughly in my order of preference.

• Leonard
  Julian
  Her mother
  Her father
  Maria Delacroix
  Cressida Harrow
  One of the B Squad
  J.C.
  Stephanie
  Katie
  Char
  Lita
  An unknown PETM functionary

[Weertangel]

I highly doubt any sequel will come out, just like with Aoi House its finished and since Frankenbitches got canceled there's no reason for them to release anything related, even more so if u see that the VC news section on that site has't been updated once this year, so while i'd love any sort of sequel in this cool universe, i think its over

[Gotoh]

I and others have wanted to see Heather get a The Reason You Suck Speech.

Leonard already let her off the hook and she already acknowledged that she wasn't much of a friend to him and asked Char to pass the apology along for her. And he didn't hold any of what happened against the other cheerleaders either. They've all moved on.

That's as good as it's gonna get, since the series is over and Adam has said there are no immediate plans (if any) to continue it.

[tau neutrino]

I and others have wanted to see Heather get a The Reason You Suck Speech.

Leonard already let her off the hook and she already acknowledged that she wasn't much of a friend to him and asked Char to pass the apology along for her. And he didn't hold any of what happened against the other cheerleaders either. They've all moved on.

That's as good as it's gonna get, since the series is over and Adam has said there are no immediate plans (if any) to continue it.

This is more of a fantasy poll, although plans might change. If "Vampire Cheerleaders Camp It Up!" ever gets made (even with script pages), it would be before the finale and I hope it explains how they learn to live openly with humanity, which would require the realization Heather had. Even if Leonard let Heather off the hook for her treatment of him (probably due to guilt on his part), he could call her out on her sociopathic treatment of her parents and others. So in your ideal world, who would you pick?

[MrJustice4]

I and others have wanted to see Heather get a The Reason You Suck Speech.

Leonard already let her off the hook and she already acknowledged that she wasn't much of a friend to him and asked Char to pass the apology along for her. And he didn't hold any of what happened against the other cheerleaders either. They've all moved on.

That's as good as it's gonna get, since the series is over and Adam has said there are no immediate plans (if any) to continue it.

This is more of a fantasy poll, although plans might change. If "Vampire Cheerleaders Camp It Up!" ever gets made (even with script pages), it would be before the finale and I hope it explains how they learn to live openly with humanity, which would require the realization Heather had. Even if Leonard let Heather off the hook for her treatment of him (probably due to guilt on his part), he could call her out on her sociopathic treatment of her parents and others. So in your ideal world, who would you pick?

I, too, would like to see Heather and Leonard work things out. I'll be the first to admit that, since the beginning, I wanted to like Heather, but, with what she's done, it was very hard to like her. The "Must Die!" story would've been the perfect time for her to redeem herself, but she didn't. I'm not mad that she had a choice(if it's true), I'm mad that she chose to do terrible things to the people that cared for her the most. She never even apologized for what she did to Leonard until 10 years after he left and that was more like a side-note. Like they were saying, "By the way, she's good now. So... Yay." I'd prefer that Leonard tell Heather what she did wrong and that she needs to change. Of course she wouldn't think to much of it at first, but she'll constantly think about what he said and try to change(after Leonard left). I would love to see that happen.